Is chibiusa mentally ill?

[sailorfire]

In the first part of the manga and anime... I felt that she had an electra complex and furthermore she threatened her mother... ( I mean although she used a fake gun, what kind of kid is she?)She also became evil too...

So, I am wondering, if a kid behaved like that in real life, would they be sent to a psychiatrist?

Sorry if i am just making a mountain out of nothing...

[Chibi Jen]

Ya know, I've been thinking about something along those lines of... why Chibiusa is such a brat when she first appeared o.o You'd think being the daughter of NeoQueen Serenity and Endymion (being Usagi and Mamoru) that she'd be a wonderful child, growing up in a loving environment...looks like her parents spoiled her, sorta..

What happened to Usagi and Mamoru? O.o

[Sailor Comett]

phew... a looong answer, I copied it all cause it explains better than I could...

Chibiusa
Many people are revolted by the fact that Chibiusa even exists, but she is easily one of my favorite characters from the series. I think that her and Mamoru's relationship among one of the cutest things in the series.

At first, Chibiusa did not like being called Chibiusa. She even yells at Usagi for calling her that, because her name is also Usagi. However, Mamoru (who is carrying Chibiusa on his back) comments that he thinks it's a cute name. So, Chibiusa decides it's all right to call her that.

Mamoru constantly puts his life on the line to save Chibiusa. He goes to the same extent for Chibiusa as he would for Usagi. Even when he first met her, and she was still a mysterious little girl, he protected her as Tuxedo Kamen. Mamoru seemed to be one of the only people Chibiusa let close to her.

At the end of Sailormoon S, after Chibiusa's pure heart had been taken away, Mamoru used his powers to bond to Chibiusa and keep her alive, while the senshi were off trying to save the world from the Silence. Once Sailorsaturn was awakened, her spirit brought Chibiusa's pure heart back to her.

Mamoru will act a little less stiff when he is around Chibiusa, which is something I adore. He lets her climb on him, shop with him, and visit him in his apartment. Once when Chibiusa was upset, he used a little Tuxedo Kamen puppet to cheer her up. I believe that his interaction with children, not just Chibiusa, shows us a side of Mamoru's persona that we would probably not get to glimpse at otherwise.

In SuperS, Chibiusa of course still loves Mamoru very much, but her romantic love turns to that of Pegasus/Helios. Mamoru invites Chibiusa to go on a "date" at an expensive restaurant to try and see if she'll tell him who she has fallen in love with. She tells him he has a long, white face...

Let's set the record straight... Chibiusa is not in love with her father. She doesn't always connect with the fact that Mamoru and Usagi are her future parents...infact, when she first travels to the 20th century, she has no real idea that Mamoru is her father. Since Mamoru is the only central male character in Chibiusa's life (and the series), she develops a crush on him. Sometimes I think it is more to annoy Usagi than anything else ^^;; It could also be because it is apparent she misses her parents, and she finds the same warmth in Mamoru that she finds in her father (Wonder why this would be?? ;-)

The Electra Complex
From the World Book Medical Encyclopedia, Chibiusa's "love" for Mamoru is described as the Electra Complex, referred to as the Oedipus Complex in males:

"Electra complex (i lek"tr*), according to Freudian theory, refers to a young girl's possessive love for her father. Due to the fear of punishment, the entire conflict is repressed into the unconscious during the phallic stage of psychosexual development. This dilemma is then successfully resolved through identification with the mother, from whom the young girl learns much of her value system. Through this learning of moral values, the superego is developed. The analogous male version is the Oedipus complex."

The Greater Love?
A lot of anti-Mamoru people tend to throw the argument out that "Mamoru loves Chibiusa more than Usagi." That's really, really lame, guys. Walk up to any devoted, caring husband and father and ask him if he loves his wife or his child more. This is an impossible question to answer; one his soulmate and the other his flesh and blood. He loves them both more than is imaginable, and to say that Mamoru loves Chibiusa more than Usagi is not true. He loves them both immensely. It's also not very comparable because the type of love Mamoru has for Usagi is different than for Chibiusa. He loves Usagi in a romantic way, and he loves Chibiusa in a fatherly way. It's sort of hard to make a comparison.

Small Lady Serenity
In the future, Chibiusa is Usagi (Neo-Queen Serenity) and Mamoru's (King Endymion) daughter. Though we don't see a great deal of Chibiusa's relationship with her parents in Crystal Tokyo, we are given the impression that it is a good one. In Sailormoon R, we are shown a scene of Chibiusa being read a story by her father about the legendary Sailormoon. Chibiusa also dreams of becoming a beautiful lady like her mother, so it seems she has great respect and love for her parents. Though when she travels to the past, and lives with her parents in their youthful forms, her relationship is much different. Of course Chibiusa loves Usagi and Mamoru very much - the way she loves them is just different. For instance, it would seem that Chibiusa has little or no respect for Usagi - but in actuality, she has a great deal of respect and admiration for her. She just doesn't openly show it like she does with Neo-Queen Serenity. With Mamoru, she hangs all over him, laughs with him and calls him her "boyfriend". I think there are two reasons for this - number one, Chibiusa views Mamoru differently than King Endymion (as explained in the above paragraphs). Number two, I am under the impression that in Crystal Tokyo, the King and Queen are sometimes forced to act a little more "proper" (even though Diana notes to Luna how the King and Queen myteriously are always sick when it's time to attend "stuffy events"), so as much as Chibiusa would love to climb all over her father, she might not be able to do so as freely. However, while living with Usagi and Mamoru, it is quite easy, so she takes advantage of that.

At the end of Sailormoon R, when Usagi has transformed into Neo-Queen Serenity to battle the Death Phantom, Chibiusa weeps in Tuxedo Kamen's arms. She knew that because she had lost the ginzuishou, Serenity had to fight. From her tears, the ginzuishou from the future appeared. We are then shown, as Small Lady joins her mother in battle, that Chibiusa is already strong enough to handle the power of the ginzuishou. This ability shows her heritage.

_{From: www.nocturnica.net/starlight/achibiusa.php}
I wasn't sure whether I liked ChibiUsa, simply because she is a little brat and she wound me up.... she was so cute though!!

[Death Soldier]

In SuperS, Chibiusa of course still loves Mamoru very much, but her romantic love turns to that of Pegasus/Helios. Mamoru invites Chibiusa to go on a "date" at an expensive restaurant to try and see if she'll tell him who she has fallen in love with. She tells him he has a long, white face...

Correcting that piece of information, she says that to Ami and Minako, anyways, I think that scene was pretty neat, I mean it seemed like Chibiusa was gonna tell Mamoru, until the others came and interrupted.

In Sailormoon R, we are shown a scene of Chibiusa being read a story by her father about the legendary Sailormoon. Chibiusa also dreams of becoming a beautiful lady like her mother, so it seems she has great respect and love for her parents.

hmm..this still doesn't really explain what Chibijen was trying to say...lol that's just odd how Chibiusa was very uhm.. 'un-nice'. Actually, she's alright with the other inner senshi~ no..? I suppose when she travelled to the present time, it's a new different place she wasn't familiar with..she couldn't trust people easily. Perhaps she was trying to be brave and not let others see the scared little child she really was, not letting others take advantage of her..either that, or she was a real bratty girl anyway, and since her mother and father wasn't here, she'd feel the freedom to misbehave..lol

[sailorfire]

o.o, but her behaviour as the black lady was odd though.

[Chibi Jen]

sailorfire said:

o.o, but her behaviour as the black lady was odd though.

How so?

[sailorfire]

She was... very posessive of her father... her future father. It just seemed odd and incestuous...

Erm... Maybe I am viewing it the wrong way, but despite the huge posts above, she still does seem to have an eletra complex.

[moongoddessselene]

Oct 3, 2005 1:57:15 GMT 10 Sailor Comett said:

phew... a looong answer, I copied it all cause it explains better than I could...

Chibiusa
Many people are revolted by the fact that Chibiusa even exists, but she is easily one of my favorite characters from the series. I think that her and Mamoru's relationship among one of the cutest things in the series.

At first, Chibiusa did not like being called Chibiusa. She even yells at Usagi for calling her that, because her name is also Usagi. However, Mamoru (who is carrying Chibiusa on his back) comments that he thinks it's a cute name. So, Chibiusa decides it's all right to call her that.

Mamoru constantly puts his life on the line to save Chibiusa. He goes to the same extent for Chibiusa as he would for Usagi. Even when he first met her, and she was still a mysterious little girl, he protected her as Tuxedo Kamen. Mamoru seemed to be one of the only people Chibiusa let close to her.

At the end of Sailormoon S, after Chibiusa's pure heart had been taken away, Mamoru used his powers to bond to Chibiusa and keep her alive, while the senshi were off trying to save the world from the Silence. Once Sailorsaturn was awakened, her spirit brought Chibiusa's pure heart back to her.

Mamoru will act a little less stiff when he is around Chibiusa, which is something I adore. He lets her climb on him, shop with him, and visit him in his apartment. Once when Chibiusa was upset, he used a little Tuxedo Kamen puppet to cheer her up. I believe that his interaction with children, not just Chibiusa, shows us a side of Mamoru's persona that we would probably not get to glimpse at otherwise.

In SuperS, Chibiusa of course still loves Mamoru very much, but her romantic love turns to that of Pegasus/Helios. Mamoru invites Chibiusa to go on a "date" at an expensive restaurant to try and see if she'll tell him who she has fallen in love with. She tells him he has a long, white face...

Let's set the record straight... Chibiusa is not in love with her father. She doesn't always connect with the fact that Mamoru and Usagi are her future parents...infact, when she first travels to the 20th century, she has no real idea that Mamoru is her father. Since Mamoru is the only central male character in Chibiusa's life (and the series), she develops a crush on him. Sometimes I think it is more to annoy Usagi than anything else ^^;; It could also be because it is apparent she misses her parents, and she finds the same warmth in Mamoru that she finds in her father (Wonder why this would be?? ;-)

The Electra Complex
From the World Book Medical Encyclopedia, Chibiusa's "love" for Mamoru is described as the Electra Complex, referred to as the Oedipus Complex in males:

"Electra complex (i lek"tr*), according to Freudian theory, refers to a young girl's possessive love for her father. Due to the fear of punishment, the entire conflict is repressed into the unconscious during the phallic stage of psychosexual development. This dilemma is then successfully resolved through identification with the mother, from whom the young girl learns much of her value system. Through this learning of moral values, the superego is developed. The analogous male version is the Oedipus complex."

The Greater Love?
A lot of anti-Mamoru people tend to throw the argument out that "Mamoru loves Chibiusa more than Usagi." That's really, really lame, guys. Walk up to any devoted, caring husband and father and ask him if he loves his wife or his child more. This is an impossible question to answer; one his soulmate and the other his flesh and blood. He loves them both more than is imaginable, and to say that Mamoru loves Chibiusa more than Usagi is not true. He loves them both immensely. It's also not very comparable because the type of love Mamoru has for Usagi is different than for Chibiusa. He loves Usagi in a romantic way, and he loves Chibiusa in a fatherly way. It's sort of hard to make a comparison.

Small Lady Serenity
In the future, Chibiusa is Usagi (Neo-Queen Serenity) and Mamoru's (King Endymion) daughter. Though we don't see a great deal of Chibiusa's relationship with her parents in Crystal Tokyo, we are given the impression that it is a good one. In Sailormoon R, we are shown a scene of Chibiusa being read a story by her father about the legendary Sailormoon. Chibiusa also dreams of becoming a beautiful lady like her mother, so it seems she has great respect and love for her parents. Though when she travels to the past, and lives with her parents in their youthful forms, her relationship is much different. Of course Chibiusa loves Usagi and Mamoru very much - the way she loves them is just different. For instance, it would seem that Chibiusa has little or no respect for Usagi - but in actuality, she has a great deal of respect and admiration for her. She just doesn't openly show it like she does with Neo-Queen Serenity. With Mamoru, she hangs all over him, laughs with him and calls him her "boyfriend". I think there are two reasons for this - number one, Chibiusa views Mamoru differently than King Endymion (as explained in the above paragraphs). Number two, I am under the impression that in Crystal Tokyo, the King and Queen are sometimes forced to act a little more "proper" (even though Diana notes to Luna how the King and Queen myteriously are always sick when it's time to attend "stuffy events"), so as much as Chibiusa would love to climb all over her father, she might not be able to do so as freely. However, while living with Usagi and Mamoru, it is quite easy, so she takes advantage of that.

At the end of Sailormoon R, when Usagi has transformed into Neo-Queen Serenity to battle the Death Phantom, Chibiusa weeps in Tuxedo Kamen's arms. She knew that because she had lost the ginzuishou, Serenity had to fight. From her tears, the ginzuishou from the future appeared. We are then shown, as Small Lady joins her mother in battle, that Chibiusa is already strong enough to handle the power of the ginzuishou. This ability shows her heritage.

_{From: www.nocturnica.net/starlight/achibiusa.php}
I wasn't sure whether I liked ChibiUsa, simply because she is a little brat and she wound me up.... she was so cute though!!

[moongoddessselene]

Sooo, anyone whose read the manga or seen Crystal version would know hands down the orginal anime is really it's own creation . Incredible amount of story is added and tooken out of the original manga it was published as before hitting tv. And alot of her behavior was modified to fit better to young American children viewers . Chibusa is actually in love with her father and admits and thinks about it many times, and furthermore her only REAL problem with Usagi is that she thinks she is not good enough to be with Mamoru (because she wants to take that spot) . Chibusa also is well aware of who both her parents are when she comes to the past and doesnt tell anyone on top of kissing her younger father and threatening her mother then profusely getting in the way of their relationship and competing against her mother, LOL all the while knowing she cannot use the silver crystal anyway lol so all of this is an act purely to see if she can pull it off otherwise there is no real reason she wouldn't just admit what happened and what needs to be done against whome waay sooner. Instead she refuses to accept her mother is truly better than her at what she does BECAUSE all of her hearts true desires are completely pure on intent, tries to be equal to her mother & is actually kinda the reason everything happened and escalated as far is it got to. Replying to. "Electra complex (i lek"tr*), according to Freudian theory, refers to a young girl's possessive love for her father. Due to the fear of punishment, the entire conflict is repressed into the unconscious during the phallic stage of psychosexual development. This dilemma is then successfully resolved through identification with the mother, from whom the young girl learns much of her value system. Through this learning of moral values, the superego is developed. The analogous male version is the Oedipus complex."


Well actually replying to most of it.. but this specific part because that is not exactly how its described... the electra complex described by frued actually is a fixation/ obsession with the thingy. The young girl begins to deeply resent her mother for "castrating " her as it's put and then becomes fixated on the Male because he has something she wants. All the while subconsciously she is aroused and sexually drawn to him because of his thingy. She then later IDENTIFIES, NOT resloves, herself more with the mother. In other words becoming conscious of her own gender and the opposite gender, and this is then where they begin to follow lead of the mother ( realizing the mother already has the father and his thingy) .. so yes in this sense you can "say" she looks up to/ admires or respects her mother for this since after realizing this the young girl will learn the mother's way of behavior/ life style is how you achieve to obtain this thingy, which she has a deep complexity of emotions towards, and therefore begins to not only learn from and follow the mother's footsteps but competes heavily with the mother for the father's passionate affections. Mind you this happens between ages 3-6 and is not widely believed in. . . And chibiusa is like over 900 years old so.??

Not too mention her insane hidden desire when she turned to black lady and claimed/ brainwashed (not mamaro but endymion) her father as her lover . As she constantly tried to do before but no on a much more intense level. She does not stop feeling this way about him or wanting him to see her "as a woman of attraction" instead of a babygirll he'll father. Not until she comes to a heavy realization when being switched body ages with usagi in the drawn arc. When she realizes that mamoru and usagi will never feel what they feel for each other for anyone else ( no matter the size &WILL GROW TO MARRY EACH OTHER NO MATTER WHAT, in this moment it kinda really hits her hard that mamoru is her father and will always be that for her a caregiver like usagi. Only after then does she really begin to have feelings for helios because only after than she understands she doesn't hold that place ever in her father's eyes does she come to closure with finding a prince of her own and this mysterious, majestical, handsome pegasus keeps appearing to help her when needed and consult with and appreciate her. ( something it kinda seemed like only her dad and Pluto did for her in her old life)





Actually i thought i kinda wraped it all up but there is one last piece id like to address.. you said that its given the impression that she grew up in a loving environment when actually (in the original story line/manga) chibusa said on more than one occasion that her mother did not ever give her "affection " and was too "busy" for her even though her dad wasn't.. that her "mommy lovs daddy more than anything in the world" "daddys the most important person to mommy and she always is with him no matter what". She also stated how she "wasn't allowed in mommys room at home" and other kids didn't believe she was the queens child because of the distance in there relationship. Although her mom did reassure her ,AFTER 900 yrs after chibusa saved her and transformed into chibimoon, that that wasn't the case and she does love her very much and believes in her more than she'll know... i can't help but think it's because she knows that her daughter actually is in love with mamoru and we all know how jealous and possessive sailor moon can be as well.

[rini]

Mar 12, 2021 16:40:38 GMT 10 moongoddessselene said:

Sooo, anyone whose read the manga or seen Crystal version would know hands down the orginal anime is really it's own creation . Incredible amount of story is added and tooken out of the original manga it was published as before hitting tv. And alot of her behavior was modified to fit better to young American children viewers . Chibusa is actually in love with her father and admits and thinks about it many times, and furthermore her only REAL problem with Usagi is that she thinks she is not good enough to be with Mamoru (because she wants to take that spot) . Chibusa also is well aware of who both her parents are when she comes to the past and doesnt tell anyone on top of kissing her younger father and threatening her mother then profusely getting in the way of their relationship and competing against her mother, LOL all the while knowing she cannot use the silver crystal anyway lol so all of this is an act purely to see if she can pull it off otherwise there is no real reason she wouldn't just admit what happened and what needs to be done against whome waay sooner. Instead she refuses to accept her mother is truly better than her at what she does BECAUSE all of her hearts true desires are completely pure on intent, tries to be equal to her mother & is actually kinda the reason everything happened and escalated as far is it got to. Replying to. "Electra complex (i lek"tr*), according to Freudian theory, refers to a young girl's possessive love for her father. Due to the fear of punishment, the entire conflict is repressed into the unconscious during the phallic stage of psychosexual development. This dilemma is then successfully resolved through identification with the mother, from whom the young girl learns much of her value system. Through this learning of moral values, the superego is developed. The analogous male version is the Oedipus complex."


Well actually replying to most of it.. but this specific part because that is not exactly how its described... the electra complex described by frued actually is a fixation/ obsession with the thingy. The young girl begins to deeply resent her mother for "castrating " her as it's put and then becomes fixated on the Male because he has something she wants. All the while subconsciously she is aroused and sexually drawn to him because of his thingy. She then later IDENTIFIES, NOT resloves, herself more with the mother. In other words becoming conscious of her own gender and the opposite gender, and this is then where they begin to follow lead of the mother ( realizing the mother already has the father and his thingy) .. so yes in this sense you can "say" she looks up to/ admires or respects her mother for this since after realizing this the young girl will learn the mother's way of behavior/ life style is how you achieve to obtain this thingy, which she has a deep complexity of emotions towards, and therefore begins to not only learn from and follow the mother's footsteps but competes heavily with the mother for the father's passionate affections. Mind you this happens between ages 3-6 and is not widely believed in. . . And chibiusa is like over 900 years old so.??

Not too mention her insane hidden desire when she turned to black lady and claimed/ brainwashed (not mamaro but endymion) her father as her lover . As she constantly tried to do before but no on a much more intense level. She does not stop feeling this way about him or wanting him to see her "as a woman of attraction" instead of a babygirll he'll father. Not until she comes to a heavy realization when being switched body ages with usagi in the drawn arc. When she realizes that mamoru and usagi will never feel what they feel for each other for anyone else ( no matter the size &WILL GROW TO MARRY EACH OTHER NO MATTER WHAT, in this moment it kinda really hits her hard that mamoru is her father and will always be that for her a caregiver like usagi. Only after then does she really begin to have feelings for helios because only after than she understands she doesn't hold that place ever in her father's eyes does she come to closure with finding a prince of her own and this mysterious, majestical, handsome pegasus keeps appearing to help her when needed and consult with and appreciate her. ( something it kinda seemed like only her dad and Pluto did for her in her old life)





Actually i thought i kinda wraped it all up but there is one last piece id like to address.. you said that its given the impression that she grew up in a loving environment when actually (in the original story line/manga) chibusa said on more than one occasion that her mother did not ever give her "affection " and was too "busy" for her even though her dad wasn't.. that her "mommy lovs daddy more than anything in the world" "daddys the most important person to mommy and she always is with him no matter what". She also stated how she "wasn't allowed in mommys room at home" and other kids didn't believe she was the queens child because of the distance in there relationship. Although her mom did reassure her ,AFTER 900 yrs after chibusa saved her and transformed into chibimoon, that that wasn't the case and she does love her very much and believes in her more than she'll know... i can't help but think it's because she knows that her daughter actually is in love with mamoru and we all know how jealous and possessive sailor moon can be as well.

Yes i agree there may be real psychological problems deep inside which is also probably why she never grows up truly because she just wasn't ready to handle that kind of maturity i would go along with electra complex IF she wasn't 903 yrs old . Lmao she is not a kid in age and therefore not in experience and shouldn't be in maturity either which makes it that much more twisted i feel like. Because shes doing and feeling all this with more understanding of it than usagi even being that she is actually way older than her past life mother